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	<title>Comments on: The Most Inconvenient Ways to Save Gas</title>
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	<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/</link>
	<description>Increase Fuel Economy and Save Money at the Pump</description>
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		<title>By: Pal</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-29813</link>
		<dc:creator>Pal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-29813</guid>
		<description>The best way to improve your fuel efficiency is to identify the marketing tactics used to convince you that bigger/faster is better, and consciously resist those tactics. Ever see the commercial where the guy tries to beat the semi onto the highway with his truck and the attached trailer? The product &quot;provides more power&quot; so he can accelerate faster. The other option? Wait less than 1 second for the semi to pass and merge on without flooring it, no special product needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best way to improve your fuel efficiency is to identify the marketing tactics used to convince you that bigger/faster is better, and consciously resist those tactics. Ever see the commercial where the guy tries to beat the semi onto the highway with his truck and the attached trailer? The product &#8220;provides more power&#8221; so he can accelerate faster. The other option? Wait less than 1 second for the semi to pass and merge on without flooring it, no special product needed.</p>
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		<title>By: snakeRO</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-29547</link>
		<dc:creator>snakeRO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-29547</guid>
		<description>andy, fuel consumption is rated per km, not per hour. i&#039;ll try to make it clear for you: let&#039;s say you have to drive 100km. going at 100km/h you&#039;ll burn let&#039;s say 10l (10l/100km). Going at 150km/h, you&#039;ll burn fuel at a rate of 22.5l/100km. So for 100km you&#039;ll burn 22.5l of fuel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>andy, fuel consumption is rated per km, not per hour. i&#8217;ll try to make it clear for you: let&#8217;s say you have to drive 100km. going at 100km/h you&#8217;ll burn let&#8217;s say 10l (10l/100km). Going at 150km/h, you&#8217;ll burn fuel at a rate of 22.5l/100km. So for 100km you&#8217;ll burn 22.5l of fuel.</p>
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		<title>By: andy</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-29268</link>
		<dc:creator>andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-29268</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit thick so I wonder if someone can answer me this question:

Ok, amazingly, travelling at 150 km/hr uses 125% more fuel than travelling at 100 km/hr.  But, you&#039;ll arrive and turn off your engine 20 minutes sooner, so won&#039;t that negate to a certain extent the extra fuel used?  I mean, you&#039;re using 100% less fuel for 20 minutes aren&#039;t you?

As I said, I&#039;m not very bright, maybe I&#039;ve got it all wrong... :-O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit thick so I wonder if someone can answer me this question:</p>
<p>Ok, amazingly, travelling at 150 km/hr uses 125% more fuel than travelling at 100 km/hr.  But, you&#8217;ll arrive and turn off your engine 20 minutes sooner, so won&#8217;t that negate to a certain extent the extra fuel used?  I mean, you&#8217;re using 100% less fuel for 20 minutes aren&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>As I said, I&#8217;m not very bright, maybe I&#8217;ve got it all wrong&#8230; :-O</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-27123</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-27123</guid>
		<description>This has turned into quite the discussion!  I think that Brian&#039;s initial point was that these things do save you money and increase your gas mileage, but they&#039;re just a little more inconvenient than others.  I would have to agree that some of these things I don&#039;t plan on doing religiously unless prices are quite a bit higher.  I guess I&#039;m willing to pay a little more to keep driving the way I normally drive!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has turned into quite the discussion!  I think that Brian&#8217;s initial point was that these things do save you money and increase your gas mileage, but they&#8217;re just a little more inconvenient than others.  I would have to agree that some of these things I don&#8217;t plan on doing religiously unless prices are quite a bit higher.  I guess I&#8217;m willing to pay a little more to keep driving the way I normally drive!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26824</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 15:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26824</guid>
		<description>Well, let&#039;s take a look. I&#039;m currently driving a Land Rover LR3 with a coefficient of drag (Cd) of 0.41 and a frontal area (A) of 3.15m^2. The aerodynamic drag is (Cd/2)*d*v^2*A where d is fluid density (for air approximately 1.16kg/m^3 and v is velocity (actually speed in this case).

So: at 150km/hour (41.7 m/s) the aerodynamic drag is (0.41/2)*(1.16)*(41.7^2)*(3.15)=1302 N (say 1300 Newtons). The other external force to be overcome by converting the chemical potential energy of gasoline to mechanical energy in the cylinders is tire rolling resistance. At typical highway speeds, as best I can determine, this number is about 0.015  times vehicle weight. I&#039;ll assume it increases linearly with speed and that 150 km/hr is 1.5 times typical highway speed, so I&#039;ll estimate 1.5*1.5=2.25 times vehicle weight. My LR3 typically weighs about 26000 N so this force is something like 585 N so the total external force to be overcome is about 1885 N. Now, force times speed is power, so I need the burning of fossil fuels to give me energy at the rate of 1885 N *41.7 m/s or 78,600 watts. This is equivalent to 105 horsepower. Whew.

The same calculations for the speed of 100 km/hr (27.8 m/s) yield an aerodynamic drag force of 579 N and a rolling resistance of 390 N for a total of 969 N. At 27.8 m/s this requires 26,900 watts or 36 horsepower.

All this is very interesting, but since I&#039;ve assumed that rolling resistance and all manner of dissipative forces in the car (pumping of fluids, driveline friction, etc.) are linear functions of speed as is distance covered per second, the ratio of fuel consumption rates at those two speeds will depend only on aerodynamic drag, which increases as a power function of speed. In my LR3 therefore, I should use )(1300-589)/579)*100%=124.5% more fuel at 150 km/hour. I&#039;m more than willing to call it 125% :). And since the only variable in the aerodynamic drag calculation specific to my vehicle is Cd and it is a linear factor, the same ratio will hold for any vehicle.

So, with your permission, we&#039;ll agree on 125% more fuel (or 225% as much fuel) and a time savings of 20 minutes for a 100 km trip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, let&#8217;s take a look. I&#8217;m currently driving a Land Rover LR3 with a coefficient of drag (Cd) of 0.41 and a frontal area (A) of 3.15m^2. The aerodynamic drag is (Cd/2)*d*v^2*A where d is fluid density (for air approximately 1.16kg/m^3 and v is velocity (actually speed in this case).</p>
<p>So: at 150km/hour (41.7 m/s) the aerodynamic drag is (0.41/2)*(1.16)*(41.7^2)*(3.15)=1302 N (say 1300 Newtons). The other external force to be overcome by converting the chemical potential energy of gasoline to mechanical energy in the cylinders is tire rolling resistance. At typical highway speeds, as best I can determine, this number is about 0.015  times vehicle weight. I&#8217;ll assume it increases linearly with speed and that 150 km/hr is 1.5 times typical highway speed, so I&#8217;ll estimate 1.5*1.5=2.25 times vehicle weight. My LR3 typically weighs about 26000 N so this force is something like 585 N so the total external force to be overcome is about 1885 N. Now, force times speed is power, so I need the burning of fossil fuels to give me energy at the rate of 1885 N *41.7 m/s or 78,600 watts. This is equivalent to 105 horsepower. Whew.</p>
<p>The same calculations for the speed of 100 km/hr (27.8 m/s) yield an aerodynamic drag force of 579 N and a rolling resistance of 390 N for a total of 969 N. At 27.8 m/s this requires 26,900 watts or 36 horsepower.</p>
<p>All this is very interesting, but since I&#8217;ve assumed that rolling resistance and all manner of dissipative forces in the car (pumping of fluids, driveline friction, etc.) are linear functions of speed as is distance covered per second, the ratio of fuel consumption rates at those two speeds will depend only on aerodynamic drag, which increases as a power function of speed. In my LR3 therefore, I should use )(1300-589)/579)*100%=124.5% more fuel at 150 km/hour. I&#8217;m more than willing to call it 125% <img src='http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . And since the only variable in the aerodynamic drag calculation specific to my vehicle is Cd and it is a linear factor, the same ratio will hold for any vehicle.</p>
<p>So, with your permission, we&#8217;ll agree on 125% more fuel (or 225% as much fuel) and a time savings of 20 minutes for a 100 km trip.</p>
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		<title>By: gnoble</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26789</link>
		<dc:creator>gnoble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26789</guid>
		<description>Hmm, yeah I&#039;m not a math major by any facet of the imagination, but one of my co-workers got a doctor of physics to do some math for us. This is what he figured out (It&#039;s actually 125% more fuel, my mistake):

 Why do I burn more fuel the faster I go? 

Basically, higher speed involves a higher force related to air resistance. As speed goes up, the force required to push a vehicle through air rises significantly.

The power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag is given by:



Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. A car cruising on a highway at 80 km/h may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 160 km/h requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice faster. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times a work in half the time requires eight times the power.


If the image insertion didn&#039;t work above, you can check out the formula at 
http://www.clean.ns.ca/default.asp?id=190&amp;pagesize=1&amp;sfield=content.id&amp;search=179&amp;mn=1.21.52.160

It also has extra information about our program!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, yeah I&#8217;m not a math major by any facet of the imagination, but one of my co-workers got a doctor of physics to do some math for us. This is what he figured out (It&#8217;s actually 125% more fuel, my mistake):</p>
<p> Why do I burn more fuel the faster I go? </p>
<p>Basically, higher speed involves a higher force related to air resistance. As speed goes up, the force required to push a vehicle through air rises significantly.</p>
<p>The power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag is given by:</p>
<p>Note that the power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. A car cruising on a highway at 80 km/h may require only 10 horsepower (7.5 kW) to overcome air drag, but that same car at 160 km/h requires 80 hp (60 kW). With a doubling of speed the drag (force) quadruples per the formula. Exerting four times the force over a fixed distance produces four times as much work. At twice the speed the work (resulting in displacement over a fixed distance) is done twice faster. Since power is the rate of doing work, four times a work in half the time requires eight times the power.</p>
<p>If the image insertion didn&#8217;t work above, you can check out the formula at<br />
<a href="http://www.clean.ns.ca/default.asp?id=190&#038;pagesize=1&#038;sfield=content.id&#038;search=179&#038;mn=1.21.52.160" rel="nofollow">http://www.clean.ns.ca/default.asp?id=190&#038;pagesize=1&#038;sfield=content.id&#038;search=179&#038;mn=1.21.52.160</a></p>
<p>It also has extra information about our program!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26702</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jun 2007 02:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26702</guid>
		<description>Hmm.. to gnoble,

I have to question your figures, considering that going 100 kilometers at 100 kilometers per hour takes an hour, going the same distance at 150 kilometers per hour takes 40 minutes. I&#039;m thinking that&#039;s a savings of 20 minutes, which makes sense - going 50% faster should reduce your time by 33% (I majored in mathematics).

I&#039;m not sure that you would use 150% more fuel. That would be a reduction in m.p.g. of 60% (the same as an increase in liters per kilometer of 150%). No figures I have determined from my experience or calculation indicate a decrease of that magnitude in fuel economy, even for a vehicle with very poor aerodynamics (the type that would be most affected).

Nothing personal, but when such fundamental errors are made, it calls into question the accuracy of your other points as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.. to gnoble,</p>
<p>I have to question your figures, considering that going 100 kilometers at 100 kilometers per hour takes an hour, going the same distance at 150 kilometers per hour takes 40 minutes. I&#8217;m thinking that&#8217;s a savings of 20 minutes, which makes sense &#8211; going 50% faster should reduce your time by 33% (I majored in mathematics).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that you would use 150% more fuel. That would be a reduction in m.p.g. of 60% (the same as an increase in liters per kilometer of 150%). No figures I have determined from my experience or calculation indicate a decrease of that magnitude in fuel economy, even for a vehicle with very poor aerodynamics (the type that would be most affected).</p>
<p>Nothing personal, but when such fundamental errors are made, it calls into question the accuracy of your other points as well.</p>
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		<title>By: gnoble</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26651</link>
		<dc:creator>gnoble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26651</guid>
		<description>Haha, this is funny, we (lise and i) actually work together! Although I guess work is a bit subjective if we can afford to spend all this time posting! 
I thought that something was up with your &#039;longer walks&#039; comment. But you do bring up some good points though, a lot people would find these changes huge inconvenience on their lifestyle. In truth people never drive the speed limit, crank up the A/C whenever possible, hate taking the bus and don&#039;t have the money for new fuel efficient cars (w/o sacrificing size). If it weren&#039;t the fact that gas prices have doubled in the past six years, it would be even harder to convince people to make these changes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha, this is funny, we (lise and i) actually work together! Although I guess work is a bit subjective if we can afford to spend all this time posting!<br />
I thought that something was up with your &#8216;longer walks&#8217; comment. But you do bring up some good points though, a lot people would find these changes huge inconvenience on their lifestyle. In truth people never drive the speed limit, crank up the A/C whenever possible, hate taking the bus and don&#8217;t have the money for new fuel efficient cars (w/o sacrificing size). If it weren&#8217;t the fact that gas prices have doubled in the past six years, it would be even harder to convince people to make these changes!</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26649</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26649</guid>
		<description>I have extensively experimented with, documented the effects of, and calculated the individual and societal effects of all of these. For example, in the car in which I originally started my experimentation in 2005, a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, I raised my average mileage from 14.9 m.p.g. to over 23 m.p.g. I used all the techniques in your blog and more, again, extensively documented in my blog at http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/.

I calculated here (purely using estimations): http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/ween-us-from-imported-oil-maybe-not.html that elimination of drive through windows would save the U.S. about 350,000 barrels of oil per year, or about 0.007% of our imports. But I stopped using them despite this very small number.

The time factor is not insignificant. See http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/use-of-time.html for some numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have extensively experimented with, documented the effects of, and calculated the individual and societal effects of all of these. For example, in the car in which I originally started my experimentation in 2005, a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, I raised my average mileage from 14.9 m.p.g. to over 23 m.p.g. I used all the techniques in your blog and more, again, extensively documented in my blog at <a href="http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/</a>.</p>
<p>I calculated here (purely using estimations): <a href="http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/ween-us-from-imported-oil-maybe-not.html" rel="nofollow">http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/ween-us-from-imported-oil-maybe-not.html</a> that elimination of drive through windows would save the U.S. about 350,000 barrels of oil per year, or about 0.007% of our imports. But I stopped using them despite this very small number.</p>
<p>The time factor is not insignificant. See <a href="http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/use-of-time.html" rel="nofollow">http://hamiltonianfunction.blogspot.com/2006/04/use-of-time.html</a> for some numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Carr</title>
		<link>http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/driving-habits/the-most-inconvenient-ways-to-save-gas/comment-page-1/#comment-26648</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailyfueleconomytip.com/?p=384#comment-26648</guid>
		<description>Lise - no worries, and I apolgize for my smart-ass reply back to you.

I guess the undertone of the article was meant to be kind of sarcastic; I think that many of these things really aren&#039;t a great inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, however, we tend to make a bigger deal out of them than what we really should.

I suppose I didn&#039;t lay on the sarcasm as thickly as I had intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lise &#8211; no worries, and I apolgize for my smart-ass reply back to you.</p>
<p>I guess the undertone of the article was meant to be kind of sarcastic; I think that many of these things really aren&#8217;t a great inconvenience in the grand scheme of things, however, we tend to make a bigger deal out of them than what we really should.</p>
<p>I suppose I didn&#8217;t lay on the sarcasm as thickly as I had intended.</p>
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