Comments on: Which Vehicle do YOU Think Can Help Save the World?

By: Seth Gibson

Seth Gibson — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 03:07:28 +0000

This is a great article with one small problem and it is the same difficulty that we as Americans face every day: SAVING THE WORLD. Here is an interesting spin relating to this topic that I would like to know: Which Vehicle do YOU Think Can Save the American economy?

I am not well-versed with computer and do not know the first thing about launching this discussion, maybe someone could take the initiative and help kick off this idea into gear.

By: newhybridcarsonline.com » Blog Archive » Which Vehicle do YOU Think Can Help Save the World? by Daily Fuel

Fri, 03 Aug 2007 04:08:24 +0000

[...] Which Vehicle do YOU Think Can Help Save the World? by Daily Fuel alternative fuel cars: Liquid Hydrogen Fuel Cell 17% Gaseous Hydrogen Fuel Cell 22% Gasoline Car 20% Diesel car 26% Diesel-electric hybrid 33% (with regenerative braking) [...]

By: baudman

baudman — Wed, 09 May 2007 05:54:51 +0000

Ermm… Bicycle?

We moved closer to the city, so that we could cycle-commute to work. Another friend choses jobs close to where he works so he can cycle there.

I’m mindful (of course) that this solution doesn’t work for everyone. Howver, there are many, many people who could cycle (or even walk!) and choose to take their car.

By: Brian Carr

Brian Carr — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:15:45 +0000

THP – thanks for the comments and for the resources. Like you, I’m very interested in these plugin hybrids, and I’m actually considering buying a regular hybrid and having the necessary modifications done to it. That being said, I’m afraid the car will get screwed up and I’ll be out 25 grand!

By: T-H.P.

T-H.P. — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:43:00 +0000

This may be of interest to some:

I’m considering (some day) buying a diesel-electric hybrid with the
option of plugging in overnight. Such a car could easily run
exclusively electric on my daily commute to work if I plugged it in
periodically overnight at home. The question I seek to answer below
is, how much savings, if any, could I realize by plugging such a car
in overnight versus running my existing diesel 1997 VW Golf?

Why post this? In case you or someone you know might have the
same question and save you the effort of calculating.

Assume 73% Efficiency [1] for plug-in charge/discharge losses plus
friction losses, assuming regenerative braking (wall to wheels)

Conversions: 1 GJ = 277.8 kWhr = 25 L diesel (40MJ/L [3])

Golf gets 12.5 to 17 km/L (winter to summer)

Assume average 14 km/L diesel to move car in city

8 km to work each way * 2 = 16km/day

assume 16km/day on weekends as well for misc driving

Fuel used = 16/14 = 1.14 L diesel/day

Daily Cost of diesel = 1.14 * $1/L = $1.14/day

Efficiency of Golf ~26% [2]

Diesel used to move car = 1.14*0.26 = 0.30 L diesel/day

Power required to move car = 0.30*277.8/25 = 3.3 kWhr/day

Power required from grid to charge car: 3.3/0.73 = 4.5 kWhr/day

Cost of power = 4.5 kWhr*$0.08/kWhr = $0.36/day

Savings per day = $1.14 – $0.36 = $0.78/day

Savings per year = 365 days/yr *0.78 = $285/yr

Sources:

[1] http://www.evworld.com/library/fcev_vs_hev.pdf
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Power_and_fuel_economy
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel#Petroleum_diesel

By: T-H.P.

T-H.P. — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:40:27 +0000

I’m not sure hydrogen is the best option, at least not yet:

Overall efficiency (oil well and/or power plant to wheels) of
alternative fuel cars:

Liquid Hydrogen Fuel Cell 17%
Gaseous Hydrogen Fuel Cell 22%
Gasoline Car 20%
Diesel car 26%
Diesel-electric hybrid 33% (with regenerative braking)
Electric Plug-in Car 66% (with regenerative braking; short range only i.e. 60km/charge)

http://www.evworld.com/library/fcev_vs_hev.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine#Power_and_fuel_economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine#Engine_Efficiency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_fuel_cell#In_practice

By: Brian Carr

Brian Carr — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 00:10:56 +0000

Henry – thanks for the comment and congratulations. I like Hugg, so it’s always nice to get up there. I think the technology for a lot of these alternative fuels will come down in price, but I think the days of cheap transportation are going to be over before we know it.

I had 150 responses for the poll.

By: Henry

Henry — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:22:48 +0000

Congratulations for being on Hugg!
I think that the Volt concept will be the best option. Its generator will run on either methane gas from biomass or SVO for now. These cars should give 100+ mpg in the future.
Building BEV strong enough for tesla like range will be too expensive for purchase and maintenance for the average person.

Million dollar Fuelcell cars are less fuel efficient then the 25000$ CNG toyota Prius.

How many folks in your survey?

By: Brian Carr

Brian Carr — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:02:52 +0000

Sherry – thanks for the comment. To be honest, I think that plug-in hybrids are going to be the next big thing, but I’m afraid that they’re only going to be a stop-gap until we come up with a fuel other than gasoline.

By: Sherry Boschert

Sherry Boschert — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:21:07 +0000

Which just goes to show that people don’t really know the pros and cons of these cars and are just reflecting the great job done by all the hydrogen hypesters. Hydrogen is the flavor of the day, but it doesn’t make sense for cars. It’s much more expensive and more pollulting than other alternatives. I recommend reading Joseph Romm’s book The Hype about Hydrogen, or my own book, Plug-in Hybrids: The Cars that will Recharge America for a closer look at why hydrogen won’t save us.
Sherry Boschert
http://www.sherryboschert.com